Sunday, February 24, 2008

Ralph Nader, the Republican's Best Friend. **UPDATE

As I'm sure you've heard by now, Ralph Nader is running for president. I wish I could say I was surprised, by as you can see, I'm not.

It looks like the bickering and backstabbing among the progressives has finally paid off for McCain.

Will his impact be less than in 2000, or even 2004? Of course. Will it still be enough to make a difference? Probably.

Florida, Ohio are toss ups even without him in the race.

Other than those two states, name me one State the Democrats can possibly pick up from last time, that the margin of a few thousand votes won't make a difference. This chart shows vote totals from 2000, show me a state we have a chance of picking up that his votes wouldn't make a difference.

Add to that, the vote stealing and voter purging that we know will take place, and it sure looks like we're getting a McCain administration for Christmas.

This sicken me, it truly fucking sickens me.

Welcome to permanent tax cuts for the rich. Welcome to war in Iran. Welcome to a Supreme Court that will turn back every protection the poor and the working class have. Welcome to back room abortions.

Fuck Nader and fuck ANYONE who doesn't vote a straight Democratic ticket. Fuck your so-called principles. Your principles won't get science back into your children's classrooms, your principles won't provide health care for your family when your employer decides it's too expensive, your principles won't put $5.00 a gallon gas in your car, your principles won't keep the Government out of your email, telephones or bedroom.

Fuck this shit.

You know I don't believe in hell, but that's where Ralph Nader belongs.

Go away Ralph Nader, you have destroyed any legacy of good you may have ever had.

***Updated!!! Anne, has this video posted, which sums it up quite nicely,(without all the cussing and stuff.)


Anne said...

In-freakin'-deed. I posted a video at my place that might at least elicit a laugh on the subject.

ouyangdan said...

i am right here w/ you...

course...back then i was still deluded...and was happy that nader ran...for all the reasons you mentioned...(in case you weren't aware i am a convert to the dark side)...i remember all my dem friends bragging that they voted for someone who "got it right"...and laughing at them for it...

i am all for principles, but we all need to remember the mess that happened last time nader ran... the rethugs pay him to run?

i second your sentiment...cussing and all...

Michael said...

The problem is the two party system, not Nader taking votes.

Petra said...

If I had a say in running the US, I would immediately introduce:

- the metric system

- at least one more political party

Brave Sir Robin said...

michael -

Yes, the two party system is a problem, as is the winner-take-all electoral college, but it's what we have.

Ralph siphons liberal votes.

Period. He knows this and yet chooses to run.

Had he not ran in 2000, the entire world would be very, very different.

I'm a pragmatist. What is the greater good for the greater number of people.

I've written about this before.

Dusty said...

Gee..don't hold back now..tell us what you really think about people like me that vote their conscience Sir Robin.

This isn't a new thing for me. I haven't voted for DiFi for CA.Senator in almost a decade. I also didn't like the bs Gray Davis was pulling so I voted to oust his ass, which of course allowed Ahnold to move in and really screw with Cali residents.

I am such a horrible person for being principled. Will my Karma be coming back to bite me in the ass sooner or later is the only question left I guess. ;p

Brave Sir Robin said...

I admire the idea of principle, but I'm not willing to make my children pay the horrible price of sticking to my principles.

You pick your battles. What is the goal? To make the USA, or the world a better place for everyone. What is the best way to that goal? A vote against the Dem is a vote for the Republican. It really is that simple.

Does that make you a bad person? Of course not. Each of us have choices, choices have consequences. Some people couldn't sleep at night if they supported a candidate that wasn't their ideal. I couldn't sleep knowing I helped put Bush (McCain) in office by voteing for Nader.

Nader is far more in line with my views, but a vote for him is a vote for McCain.

Ask yourself this.

If Ralph Nader hadn't run in 2000, would nearly a million Iraqi's still be alive?

Brave Sir Robin said...


Shorter answer:

Principles are wonderful, but he system is broken and the stakes are simply too high to hand the election the the Republicans again.

Dusty said...

I think what bothers me the most is that it's OUR fault the Dem's did not win.

If the DNC didn't learn anything from that election, its OUR fault?

I am tired of the DLC and DCCC controlling the agenda. They expect progressive votes without so much as a blink of their baby blue eyes. Its their fault progressives refuses to just vote for whatever the Dem's put up. They offer us nothing in return for our votes. Nothing. Not a damn thing. They slam progressives with their rhetoric, accusing us of trying to control the party, but then blame the same progressives for not voting the straight Democratic ticket.

Thats bullshit Sir. Total bullshit. It's not my fault they do not even attempt to bring us into the 'fold'. Why should I blindly support a party that caters to the moderates and right of center folks? How is that better for me and my belief system?

I vote for Dem's I consider good people. I have always done that. It's not about the party, its about the person running for election.

Its also not "my" fault the electoral college is a worthless piece of bat shit that should be scrapped or at the very least overhauled.

We 'handed' the Democrats the election in 06, and it has gotten us what exactly? all means, tell me what 'we' got out of the Nov 06 election deal.

Nader got what, 2.8 million votes last time? I know enough progressive voters that swear they will not vote for one or the other candidate if they win the Dem nod at the convention. This election is probably the most important one of my life, and yet I am expected to tow the company line and hold my nose to vote for whomever is put up. Even if Nader represents my interests more than the Dem nominee.

Its time for the Democratic party to realize left of center folks will not tow the company line. Not without representation.

Brave Sir Robin said...

I understand and sympathize with all of what your saying.

ie -

I am tired of the DLC and DCCC controlling the agenda. They expect progressive votes without so much as a blink of their baby blue eyes.

Its time for the Democratic party to realize left of center folks will not tow the company line. Not without representation.
True, and fair enough, but you said it yourself - This is the most important election in your lifetime.

Make your statement for Governer, House of Rep.

Picture the court with McCain appointees. Think about it.

Ok, here's the deal:

It is unfair to blame progressives, but it doesn't change the outcome. Look at that chart I posted. Do the math. The numbers never lie, there are states up for grabs where a few thousand votes make the difference between all or nothing.

Yes it sucks, but the stakes are too high, it doesn't matter who's to blame.

Dusty said...


When do I actually get to stand up for my convictions then? Its always "too important" or if you don't vote Dem you are giving it to the Rethugs.

Sweet Jaysus in a speedo, I am beginning to think its just another line being handed to me in order to browbeat me into voting for some jackass that I don't trust.

It is unfair to blame progressives, but-Anytime you start a sentence with that "but" word..I will get my stubborn streak on and once again say that I can not be right AND wrong!

I must respectfully say we shall agree to disagree Sir Robin. I will continue to attempt to find a redeeming quality in either of the two Dem's running..I promise that.

But I can not promise to tow the Democratic line if I don't find something to believe is in my best interests. I am sorry if folks don't get 'it' about why I vote for one of my felines instead of handing over my vote to another worthless Democrat to ruin things just as badly as a Rethug in office does.

There is a very good reason I call the two parties Republican and Republican-lite.

I agree wholeheartedly with Michael..Nader isn't the problem, the two party system is.

Brave Sir Robin said...

I must respectfully say we shall agree to disagree Sir Robin
Nothing wrong with that.

Nader isn't the problem, the two party system is.

It's what we have though. You can't change the system, As much as I wish for a multi-party parliamentary type coalition government, it ain't gonna happen.

I will continue to attempt to find a redeeming quality in either of the two Dem's running..I promise that.
It's all I can ask.